Avernus
Meatshield
Barrage Dragon Lover
Posts: 57
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Post by Avernus on May 20, 2010 20:03:51 GMT
Only way I would say give Arachs a pain state, is if you gave DooM another anti-ghost that was equally efficient, IE, maybe fatsos? Which would reverse a long-standing, fully justified gameplay factor. Which is unnecessary because there is flame mancubus.
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Post by Captain Ventris on May 20, 2010 20:09:01 GMT
...See, the point of the flame manc upgrade is so that the mancubus CAN hit ghosts. So, see, you trade long range for close range, but get the ability to hit ghosts. Like, it's sort of a trade off, like it was meant to keep the mancubus as an effective long range unit, while keeping it from dominating or moving out of its price niche, as if it were a purposeful development with forethought... woooooooow
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Avernus
Meatshield
Barrage Dragon Lover
Posts: 57
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Post by Avernus on May 20, 2010 20:26:27 GMT
What are you getting at ? Arachnotrons don't lose much by having a pain state, it is just to give them some sort of vulnerability.
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Post by Captain Ventris on May 20, 2010 20:43:32 GMT
You stated that mancubus not being able to hit ghosts was unnecessary.
And again, they are wide targets, so almost everything hits them. Since monsters fire on monsters that attack them, the arachnotron garners a lot of attention. It being on a tower is irrelevant. It in fact prevents the arachnotron from moving as much, and therefore gets hit even more. With a pain state, it would not be able to fire nearly often enough to be worth its price.
Arachnotrons DO have a vulnerability: Their size, slowness, and relative low health: A manc, which is substantially cheaper, has 1300 health, and a Baron, which is just as expensive, has 1500. The arachnotron has 850. That's less than the Order Bishop at 950, which, if you'll remember, dies when breathed upon.
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Avernus
Meatshield
Barrage Dragon Lover
Posts: 57
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Post by Avernus on May 20, 2010 20:49:45 GMT
I know they are wide but they won't go unsupported and that's where the problem kicks in... You just can't reach them in time for your units to do much, they tearn anything down; even if you surround it. (Only hexen seems to do well against those, with centaur's reflect) With other factions there are many different scenarios depending on maps... Some have rail revenant spam, some have mancubus support, some have demons all around. You just can't reach them, even if you do other units retreat and you are gone. If you want my honesty, I find it A LOT harder to kill an arachnotron than to kill a flame mancubus, or a baron. (With pretty much any faction except for hexen)
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Post by Captain Ventris on May 20, 2010 20:52:57 GMT
If an Arachnotron is surrounded by units, it's going to have a hard time shooting the enemy.
Also, this really just sounds like your childhood vendetta that started with your parents' murder at the hands of the Spiderdemon Mafia has kept you from being able to kill, you know, the PINKY DEMONS surrounding an arachnotron.
If you can't outsmart the Doom AI, then there is nothing that I or any psychology specialist will ever be able to do about this.
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Post by Alther Primus on May 20, 2010 21:50:51 GMT
Well, my comments were against it, but even so, It's Ventris's mod, so it's up to him in the end...
And may I include a quote of yours in my sig Captain Ventris?
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Post by Captain Ventris on May 20, 2010 21:56:59 GMT
Lol sure.
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Avernus
Meatshield
Barrage Dragon Lover
Posts: 57
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Post by Avernus on May 20, 2010 23:18:06 GMT
I'm tired of trying to describe the cases. You just have to see :/ Till then, I'll eagerly wait for the suddenly disappeared bunch of people who were also willing to see arachnotrons have a pain state.
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Post by Captain Ventris on May 21, 2010 0:53:32 GMT
M'kay.
EDIT: Wait, is 2.8 bringing about the Rapture!?
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Post by Banjoster on May 26, 2010 21:10:41 GMT
Arachnotrons are just fine. You should be able to close in and kill them with melee units without much of a problem. It's not like they are hitscanners that rape you as you try to get near them. I've honestly never had any sort of real problem with them.
And about them sniping everything on site. I'd blame the ship for that. Whoever uses that ship has a huge advantage over every one on land simply because of the map layout.
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Post by $-$lyfox-$ on May 27, 2010 20:45:08 GMT
Arachnotrons are just fine. You should be able to close in and kill them with melee units without much of a problem. It's not like they are hitscanners that rape you as you try to get near them. I've honestly never had any sort of real problem with them. And about them sniping everything on site. I'd blame the ship for that. Whoever uses that ship has a huge advantage over every one on land simply because of the map layout. hell i never had a problem with arachnotrons either. as a matter of fact, it takes like 6 of them to unlock mastermind, but half of them fail cause of there huge size [and the fact i suck at placing them]
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Post by $-$lyfox-$ on Jun 1, 2010 20:11:30 GMT
M'kay. EDIT: Wait, is 2.8 bringing about the Rapture!? 2.8 now I don't see anything different [about this topic of course]
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TheGrim275
Meatshield
My name is Traductus, Believe in korax or im going to baptize You!
Posts: 50
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Post by TheGrim275 on Jun 9, 2010 12:47:14 GMT
shhhhhhh dont let god hear that lol
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Post by $-$lyfox-$ on Jul 21, 2010 22:03:32 GMT
its bullcrap the poll ended before we had 15 [were 2 away dammit] oh well ppl forgot about this alredy
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