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Post by Captain Ventris on Aug 11, 2010 15:48:00 GMT
I'm philosophically unopposed to custom factions, but entirely opposed to them on a practical level due to the inevitable collateral nuisance that will ensue.
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Post by pizzaguy on Aug 11, 2010 15:53:23 GMT
Right the philosophical part is what I'm getting at. Theoretically, custom factions aren't a bad idea, but practically they can be a nightmare, yeah. That's all I'm saying. If labeled completely unofficial and made of high quality, maybe things would be different... but unfortunately the custom ones out there now aren't of very high quality right now and it does create a bit of a problem. I see your point there, definitely.
I'm opposed to Bestiary factions entirely myself just due to the fact there are so many Bestiary monsters and it would just be a giant cluster fuck of different monsters that are probably totally unbalanced. Realm suffers less from this but a**** is just... fuck...
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Post by Captain Ventris on Aug 11, 2010 15:55:03 GMT
The practical part is that the philosophical part is completely inapplicable. you can be obnoxious about the unofficial labels all you want, but someone, somewhere, will bug me to make it official.
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Post by pizzaguy on Aug 11, 2010 16:01:17 GMT
Yeah people will always bug you about it, unfortunately. Its just the nature of the beast, I suppose. If only people would acknowledge that some things are best left unofficial, we'd all be a lot better off. Ah, well.
Funny enough, the biggest problem I have with people hosting servers with unofficial stuff isn't even the factions, its that people host really, REALLY bad maps sometimes. ZDW should be played on ZDW maps, not crappy deathmatch maps people just happen to have.
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Post by Vilde[Fin] on Aug 11, 2010 16:43:18 GMT
I think this whole conversation is useless.. It definitely would be more than great to have Dükê around but as you Pizza should've already noticed, Ventris will never accept it.. Could be great too if the servers with Dúkè were not completely forbidden. As sad as it might sound for a Düké fan like myself: It will propably also never happen. I myself have already accepted the fact D3D is not coming to ZDoomWars and I think you should accept it too before you get yourself banned or something XD It has been told too many times that D3D is not going to be in and it should be forgotten already. I think the best way to forget it is to figure out a new actually official faction that really fills all the requirements and is approved by Ventris. Too bad I can't figure any..
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Post by pizzaguy on Aug 11, 2010 16:57:14 GMT
Well, there's always GoldenEye...
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Post by Dancso on Aug 11, 2010 17:47:49 GMT
PACMAN FACTION, ANYONE?
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Post by Captain Ventris on Aug 11, 2010 17:55:06 GMT
Well, there's always GoldenEye... There are certain requirements before a faction is eligible for official and supported inclusion in ZDoom Wars. These rules were originally more lax, and then I learned about "Quality control" and tightened up the regulations. Faction ideas must pass each of these rules, to be considered in the order they are typed here. If you are unwilling to read them, do not make faction suggestions. 1. The original source of the content of the faction MUST be the Doom Engine. i.e., D*** 3d is not eligible, as it is B**** engine. Some have tried to bring up a technicality via ZB****, however, the content of ZB**** originated from, well, B****, which is a B**** engine game. Note that W***enstein was NOT based on the Doom Engine, and is disqualified on pretty much every other requirement anyway. GuiGui tried to make an argument for D***3d that was something along the lines of bypassing this rule because both D***3d and Doom are FPS's. This argument wears a helmet and drools on itself, and I might just reject your proposal purely out of spite if you bring it up. Don't bring up semantics, the meaning of the rule is clear to all who are not retarded. If the desired faction does not pass this rule, its repeated request will be met with instant verbal abuse. 2. The content must have all originated from a singular wad or wad series, intended to be used together as one set of enemies. They must also have a majority of custom graphics. A well-done edit with much different behavior from the original may be withstood to a degree, but a faction entirely or mostly of edits is out of the question. This eliminates any "beastiary faction" ideas, as well as wads which include the original Doom monsters, such as Cold as Hell. If the wad is part of a series of wads which are similar enough to use as a single faction, each part of the series must fit all criteria. As you can see, this narrows the field of possibility significantly. If the faction in question does not pass this rule, its repeated request will be met with snarkiness, followed by simple, childish insults if the matter is pressed. 3. There must be an overall change in monster behavior significant enough to predefine some battlefield roles. Though not all monsters must be different, there must be enough monsters with behavior variance that I, in good conscience, can further alter the behavior to not overlap other factions so much. The great majority of monsters in the faction Should have animations and rotations, depending on behavior, and there should be no more than 16 monsters, and no less than 10. A set of suitable Player Sprites is also strongly desired. Adjustments and exceptions can be made if necessary and understandable. This entire rule is more of a subjective thing on my part, and qualified Chex Quest 3, as well as the future addition of Harmony. If the faction in question does not pass this rule, I will remind you that I am the creator of this wad, and therefore have final creative authority. Pressing the matter will result in a combination of the responses for failing the other rules. 4. I, as Wad Author must feel, after all other factors are considered, that a Faction of the project in question must bring enough to the game to be worth inclusion, and to not screw gameplay. For this reason, I will not accept Faction Submissions - You can give me ideas, so long as they fit the previous criteria, but I wish to go from the ground up to make the Faction efficient for me to edit, and to go in the direction I personally feel will be best for the wad. In short, I honestly just have to WANT to do it. Failure to pass this rule will be less unusual than you think - I found that Batman Doom did not have enough unique concepts to make a compelling faction, for example. Since getting to this rule is some sort of major accomplishment, I usually won't yell at you over it, unless you insist on being mentally handicapped. There is a funny little myth that I said there would be making no more factions. This is not true. I said there would be no more factions for A WHILE. Making a Faction is a LOT of work. There is a lot of infrastructure and creative processes involved. It is not a quick process. There will NOT be a new Faction for a very long time. I will notify you all when a faction begins earnest development, with progress reports and such. Do not ask me if a Faction is being worked on. When a new faction is first released, I promise it will suck in some manner, and will have to be extensively balanced. Thusly, I will only begin creating a new faction when I feel the original 6 are well enough balanced that the new faction can be compared to them and fit in. If you desire to make a Faction suggestion: Do not post it in the ZDWars Forum. Send me a pm or email to: dwsanchez@Gmail.com. Provide a link to the wad. Do not spam, do not argue. If it is rejected, you may make one appeal, and if it doesn't make my eyes bleed, I will read it. If I tell you it is still rejected, drop the matter. Thank you, and STFU about D*** N****.
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Post by pizzaguy on Aug 11, 2010 21:24:59 GMT
GoldenEyeDoom is a lot of fun if you guys haven't played it yet, btw.
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Post by SoulSucka on Aug 11, 2010 22:21:06 GMT
GoldenEyeDoom is a lot of fun if you guys haven't played it yet, btw.
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Post by Damage on Aug 11, 2010 22:41:47 GMT
Okay this conversation stops here, either this thread gets back on topic or else it'll be locked.
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Post by $-$lyfox-$ on Aug 12, 2010 19:27:54 GMT
Okay this conversation stops here, either this thread gets back on topic or else it'll be locked. holy shit you sounded just like zap610. God damn you got good quick. *ontopic* plz Space tomato update the unofficial server mods when 3.1 comes out, cause some ppl said it wont work after that cause of the new acs.
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Post by evilspacetomato on Aug 12, 2010 19:39:20 GMT
4x will definitely not work with 3.1 since I actually did most of the work on that mod with a hex editor. Instant Death may work properly with 3.1 but I will have to check.
I am currently working on a server mod that will display peoples class at the start of the match, but I will probably leave it until 3.1.
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snazzylich
Meatshield
comes with a free toy!
Posts: 4
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Post by snazzylich on Aug 15, 2010 3:05:17 GMT
actually, only hacx2.0 might be elligable for a new faction, seeing as harmony actually has LESS than 10 enemies...even then, hacx2.0 may be on permanent hiatus due to inactivity.
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Post by pizzaguy on Aug 15, 2010 3:43:36 GMT
Inactivity on who's part?
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